Physician Loans, STR Tax Plays, and Why Invest in Dubai with Dr. Gloria Esoimeme

I've shifted my active investments to Dubai because I think that's a growing market that most people are not aware of. Just the way I was able to cash in when the interest rate was low, the 100% depreciation at the beginning of my career.

I also want to cash in here in Dubai before things get too crazy.

Welcome to Truly Passive Income. I'm Neil Henderson.

And I'm Clint Harris. And Today's guest is Dr. Gloria Esoimeme.

She's an internal medicine physician with a master's in Global health and a PhD in health services policy and management. She's also a negotiation coach who helped herself secure a three day clinical schedule at full pay. She's built a seven figure real estate portfolio.

She's recently expanded into Dubai. Her sweet spot is translating bedside communication skills into boardroom leverage.

So high achieving women get paid, promoted and protected from burnout. Dr. Gloria, we're so excited to have you with us today, especially all the way from Dubai. We really appreciate that. How are you today?

I am doing excellent. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited about our conversation.

Absolutely, absolutely excited to have you here. So that was a quick intro. There's a lot to unpack. You're very, very accomplished.

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, your journey into medicine and how you got started in real estate.

Okay. So I'm originally Nigerian.

I did my med school in Nigeria and then I moved to the U.S. initial plan was to do my master's, do my Ph.D. and then go back home. But things changed.

I had friends in the US who encouraged me to just go through and just do my residency and just get it done with because I hadn't done residency training back home. And so that was, that was a long time ago. So, so I stayed, So I stayed back in the US and then did my residency in internal medicine.

That was after my PhD and while I was in residency, I remember telling my sister I wanted to buy a home and I didn't have, residents are broke, so I didn't have any money. But I just said, oh, I was going to buy a home and I didn't, I don't think I had up to $2,000 in my account.

But I was, I reached out to a real estate agent and I told her I was looking for houses and she was walking me through the process. And then one day she said, oh, there's this program for physicians. I'm like, oh, what program is that?

She said, oh, it's a zero down process where if you're a physician, you don't have to put so much money down. I'm like, all right, let's about that. And that's how I purchased my first home for like $2,000.

And the, the, the developer at that time, he paid my closing costs. So I think the $2,000 I paid was for the lawyer. So that was how I got started when I got into residency.

So I used my physician loan and then after residency I didn't sell that home. I put it up for rent because it was a place where we had military. So the military folks rented the place. I was sure of my rents.

Then when I moved to where I was working as, you know, as a full time doctor, I also used the physician loan again and purchased my second home. And then after that I just expanded.

So there's a, there's something to unpack here that's really important. So doctor's loans. My wife's a full time realtor.

I spent 16 years working with cardiologists and surgeons and she bought and sold a lot of properties for those physicians over the years. The VA loan for military and the physician loan for physicians.

Guys, if you're listening to this and you could potentially qualify for either of those, these are low hanging fruit that can really supercharge your ability to get started early on. It's very, very low down.

As soon as you're graduating medical school, even in residency, fellowship, internal medicine, you know, go on, do a surgical residency, whatever it may be, as soon as you, you get that degree, you apply and you're likely going to get approved for, for a physician loan. SunTrust used to be the best product out there. I think they've pulled back recently, but there's still a few out there.

We're talking about low or no money down sometimes.

A lot of times you can get a better interest rate than you can get with the market because they know that there's a really good chance you're going to end up being a high income earner. And they also give you the ability to scale. Right, right. So you can move on.

And we see this, physicians sometimes will move around every two to four years or so, depending on what the residency is. And if you hold onto that property and you move on a lot of times.

So There's a pitfall here as well, which I think I, I'll mention briefly, but the people that are good at this, you buy a property, you put a tenant in place, you find the right tenant and the right property manager, you move on to the next one. You can end a 6, 8, 10, 12 year career in training in either medicine or military a lot of times and end up with several properties out of that.

But there's a caveat to that though. There's a maximum amount you can get as the physician loan and there's a number of years.

So if you are, I think if you're five years past residence, past training, you don't qualify for it anymore. So the best time, what I recommend is the best time to get it is when you are in training. So you can get your first one while you're in training.

And depending on where you move to as an adult physician, if you move to like a, a more expensive area, you may not be able to cover the full cost of the loan, but it's still a better option. You get while you're in training and then you get your first home while you are an attending. That's what I strongly recommend.

And that way you just gradually build your portfolio. Something else one of my friends did was while he was in training, he rent, he bought the place and then he had other residents rent the other rooms.

So that's extra cash flow. So it depends on your lifestyle. If you don't mind having roommates, then it's fine.

You renting out the other place, they'll pay the mortgage while you're there.

Yep, house hacking, that's a great way to do it. One other caveat is a pitfall that sometimes happens to newer physicians. And there's, there's some newer products out there that you can still get.

Doctor's loans, shop around, they're constantly changing that product.

But one of the potential pitfalls is if you're a physician and, and you're making partner in your firm, let's say you go there and you're W2 and you're A high income earner, but then you're going to make partner.

A lot of times if you go to get a loan for that product right after you've made partner, they won't approve your loan because you don't have two years of income statements.

You were salaried, so when you were on salary, you could buy pretty much anything you want the next second after you signed your new partnership contract. And a lot of your compensation comes from A profit share. You've got to show two years of that income.

So all of a sudden you might have been about to buy. We this happens a lot.

We have people that buy a starter home at 800 to 1.2, and a couple years later they're making partner and they're selling that house, which is a lot of times worth a little bit more now. And they're buying the 1.5 to 1.7 to $2.2 million house or whatever kind of here in the Southeast.

And then all of a sudden they figure out they can't get approved for that. Or they can get approved for it if they get their approval done and they purchase the house right before they make partner.

But most people want to wait until after you make partner because that's when the pay bump comes.

If you wait until you make partner, there's a good chance you just lost your contract and you're going to have to wait two more years before you can switch. So potential pitfall that a lot of people don't see coming until after it's too late. So didn't expect us to jump into the good stuff this early. So.

Okay.

All right, before you guys move on, because I'm kind of playing catch up here. You mentioned, Gloria, you mentioned that there's a limit, and I know there is with the VA as well.

Sometimes it's a total amount that you've got lended. There's also sometimes like a time limit of how often you can do it. What is the limit for a physician's loan and how often can you do it?

That's a really good question. So it depends on the bank and the relationship you've had with the bank. Obviously I did mine with the bank and it was a, it was a two year interval.

And then like 20 mile radius from that, you want to get another one, they won't approve it. It has to be some distance to show you're actually moving from one place to another. And people use the physician loan for their second home.

You could actually live live in that same home. But you can get like a holiday rental, which is also a really good hack.

You can get a holiday rental by the beach and then put the house out there and put it up as an Airbnb when you're not there, that you tell them that's your plan. And when you're not using the home, you, you plan to rent it out. That's something other people have done.

And then the maximum, some banks will say like a million dollars. That's the max you can do across a five year period. Some will go 1.5 million. I think also it might also have to do with the location.

Like if you like you said the Southeast, they, I think they do 1 million, I'm not sure but they'll have like a max you can go.

Yep, very niche product. So if it is available to you, I highly encourage you to educate yourself on it because it's a private product and it is constantly changing.

Let's talk about how. So that's how you got started in real estate, which I think is a brilliant way to do it. Hopefully you can sounded like you continued to scale that.

How did you start your foray into short term rentals, which it sounds like to me is your primary strategy, Is that right?

No, I don't know. I think I'm into the loss of primaries. So.

Okay,.

So I, so where I used, before I moved to Dubai, where I used to live was this small town, very lovely place called Albany, Georgia.

So when I wanted to get my first property for, for the rental, my sisters, who they are like my, they kind of give me, they keep me in check because I'm very daring. I think of an idea, I'm like, oh, I'm going to do that. So they act as my checks, they act as my, they check me. So there's that check and balance.

And they said, so how are you sure you're going to have, you want to use this place as an Airbnb? And at that time cash flow was not my, that was not my reason for getting the Airbnb.

Because if it's cash flow because the energy it takes to run an Airbnb when you're just starting, when you don't know how to run it, it's a lot. And then because I can work like one shift in the hospital and I would make that money easily what I would make in a month.

My reason for going into the Airbnb was more for tax savings. At that time we had the hundred percent bonus depreciation. So I'm like, okay, this will be my way of saving.

So I'm like, okay, every year I'm gon get a new one that I'm going to push out in the market so I can depreciate that home and then get some of my, my, my taxes back. So that was my strategy. And so looking at Albany, I said, well, it's a small place.

I'm not sure if people are going to want to use this place, but I'm still going to go ahead and do it. Because what I asked myself was, what's the worst that could happen? The worst that could happen is I would not have anybody come in.

It would be empty. If it's empty, am I gonna want to kill myself? No. Can I afford to pay the mortgage? I can. Will I feel bad? Yes, I will feel bad.

I can run it for a year, test run it. If it doesn't work out, then I can close it. So that was my strategy going in. Some people may say that's not smart.

Some people would sit down and do the numbers. My sister, she's an accountant, so she does numbers for me. And I have other people who do numbers for me. But I'm not a numbers person.

I'm a big picture person. Like, okay, how does this work? All right, I have all of that planned and I give it to my numbers people.

Then they tell me the worst that could happen and know what, what risk I can take. Then I make my decision based on that.

And so I started the Airbnb, and to my surprise, there was no month I didn't have more than 50% occupancy in that small town. There's really nothing happening in Albany, Georgia. Besides, the biggest employer is a hospital. That's the biggest employer there.

So it's not like a vacation spot, but it's done very well over the years.

And then after like a couple of years, had so many systems that didn't work, I finally have a system that even though I'm not there, I don't have a manager managing it because that's the caveat for physicians who have a W2 income.

So for you to qualify as a real estate professional, to have that status so you can claim that in your taxes, you need to manage, you need to show that you're actively managing that short term rental. So I didn't have a manager. I was running it myself. And initially it was crazy until I found people who I could, could trust.

When I say people, it's more like the cleaners who I could trust to say, okay, they can go clean and clean, right? And, you know, put things in place for me.

That's when it became a lot easier that even though I'm like, you know, millions of miles away, I can still run my short term rental.

All right, Dr. Gloria, we got some stuff to unpack here. I had a conversation with Neil prior to this call and I te I said if she's as sharp as this, certainly makes it sound like she is.

I guarantee what's happening here is that she's doing the cost segregation study. She's harvesting the accelerated depreciation to offset her high earning income as a physician.

And so the reality is there are short term rental deals that will pencil for her that don't pencil for other people because it's not a cash flow play, it's a depreciation play. And I want to unpack that a little bit for the listeners. So until Recently I had 14 Airbnbs.

Now I've got one was a quadplex that we just recently sold. So I'm down to 10. I also co own a property management company that manages another 75 I house hacked for years in a duplex.

Neil is currently doing that with an Airbnb short term rental as well. And this is something that's near and dear to our heart. It's also a very active strategy. You can make it.

The people that are good and obviously you are have made it a lot more passive. But the only, in my opinion, the only thing more active than Airbnb is house flipping because it's so transactional.

Airbnb, you're going to have six to eight to ten tenants per month. And it was actually, it's like running it is completely.

And it was burnout for from me in short term rentals that pushed me to invest in self storage because it's a box of air with no kitchens and bathrooms and no one living in it. And I was like, oh, that sounds like a dream compared to what I'm dealing with.

But I want to unpack what I think you're doing and which I think is very intelligent if I'm right about it. And I want you to tell me if I'm wrong.

And part of this frankly is I want to point out a few challenges that most people run into that I think you've sounds like you've navigated. When I bought my first Airbnb in our market, it was 1,128 active listings on the small island where I operated.

And the one thing that makes me a little bit uncomfortable with short term rentals is what you can't control, is what the neighbors are doing, how many people around you are going to do that. Now you sounds like you started in a niche market. We actually know Albany, Georgia.

We had a project there, we were going to convert a self storage building in Albany. We ended up backing out because of a lot of competition coming around that area right up by the lake.

But we know the area and it is exactly what you said.

Not an area you would expect to do well as a short term rental, but because there's probably so few of them and a lot of people are using them for utility and they're using it just in place of, of a hotel or they're going to visit family.

Or what families that are in the hospital.

Yeah. I've rented an Airbnb in a farmhouse in Centerville, Maryland before, like tiny little town.

The most guests I've had are people who are maybe construction workers.

Okay.

There are a lot of construction workers and a few people visiting family. A few people, some up for work. Which, like, I think is the part that shocked me the most was the construction workers.

Sometimes you're there for like, you know, weeks on end because they're working on construction. So that's a, that's a big market. And when I started it was, there were not a lot, but it's Airbnb, it's increasing every day.

Like I look in the market, I'm like, wow, this, that's one new Airbnb popping up every day. But when I started, it was not a lot of people out there.

So that doesn't matter as much to you as it does to a lot of people. Because yes, of course you want to make cash flow, but you're a high income earner. W2, so your time is worth a lot.

So it doesn't make sense for you to go do a lot of this smaller management stuff just for the cash flow. But what you're doing is documenting your hours so that you hit something called reps status, real estate, professional status.

Is that what you're doing?

So with the. There are two ways to, to head in the rep status. One is when you have to do 750 hours and all of that.

Another is the short term, because if you have the short term rental and you are actively running it, it's not like I hand it over to a management company by default. I'm already meeting that status. Just you have.

It's a full time job.

It is a full time job because you have. And how you get One part I didn't know when I started was that that status does not. It covers me just for that home, not for my other properties.

If you have 10 and one is a short term rental, that's what you qualify for on that one home. So if you have multiple, then you have to qualify for each one. That's a trick with that.

But it's either you have that you document the number of hours or you have a short term rental that you are actively managing. Then that's, that's what hits it.

Which uses that word actively. Right. And that's also on a spectrum as to how active do you have to be.

We have a, I had lunch with a, a short term rental property manager owner yesterday and they're managing 75 listings and AI is currently answering 65% of their messaging. So I was like, that's, that's pretty good. I mean that'll be 85 before long. Right. But I was, I was impressed with that.

Your strategy, Dr. Gloria has another component to it in that a lot of times with your. If what you're doing is harvesting the, the accelerated depreciation means you have the rep status because you're managing the property.

So you can order what's called a cost segregation study. They're going to look at the bricks and the sticks in the entire property as well as the furniture inside.

And, and they're going to say, yeah, typically you would be able to depreciate all of this on something around 30 years. Could be a little bit less, could be a little bit more depending on if it's residential or commercial.

But you can take all that depreciation and you can write it off in one year. And that just came back with the big beautiful bill. Again, not political at all, but that's back.

So you're starting to see more people employ this strategy. Especially if you're a high income earner like you are, what you want to do is reduce your taxes.

So you buy a property, you do the cost seg, you take the accelerated depreciation and that's a write off. You get a K1 that shows that depreciation, that shows your write offs. You can take that all in one year and that helps you a lot in that year.

Correct.

So how many of these do you have at this point?

So I have about two I didn't do too many because when I started I did a hundred percent. Then the next year I did 80%. And then it didn't make any sense for me to keep doing it to.

Go to 60 and then 40.

Yep.

But now that it's back, are you thinking about reinvesting and doing this again?

But because now I don't live in the US anymore. So I don't have W2 income, so I don't have to go through that route.

And I've shifted my real estate investment because the other ones I, the, the other properties I have in the US they are all long term rentals and which is good for me because I can still, since I'm not a W2 income earner anymore, I can depreciate those ones and then still get all my benefits. But I've shifted my, my active investments to Dubai because I think that's, that's a growing market that most people are not aware of.

Just the way I was able to cash in when the interest rate was low, the 100% depreciation at the beginning of my career. I also want to cash in here in Dubai before things get too crazy.

As far as I could see, it was nothing but cranes and development and is an amazing place. And I, I, it's probably the most pristine, beautiful, cleanest city I've ever been to in my life. It was, it was incredible.

And we went from there to India and traveled around a lot of backcountry. And it was two very different ends of the spectrum. Seeing that socioeconomic divide, you know, I.

Was telling, I was telling somebody that we don't have a, there's no, there's almost.

The middle class in Dubai is really small, like people like super rich where people are driving Bentleys and to have a Bentley to drive a Ferrari, it's nothing here. I don't drive. I'm not that rich. I'm just a doctor. But people here are like super rich. That's for you to drive. That is nothing.

Then how people now show how much wealth they have is now the tag on their car like, oh, you P7. That's a big deal.

I'm like, yeah. What?

Hang on. All right, hang on.

What does that mean?

I have no idea.

So the license tags in Dubai are a massive, massive deal. And the low, the Lowest number is the most popular. And so people will go to auction and they will pay tens of millions of dollars for the O1 license.

Like the first license plate, P1, you can't even get.

Because I think that's the chic. Like, that's like, you know, you can get that, right? If you can get seven, then that's like, you know, it's. It's a big deal here.

Whole nother world.

It's another world out here. And it's very. It's fast. It's growing really fast.

You know, we're talking before the recording started about how it was a small fishing village, right? They really had nothing. Fine, they got lucky. They had oil. But they're not the only Gulf country that's had oil. Others had oil. And then Dubai.

So there's like an Emirates with seven different. There's like the United Arab Emirates with seven different Emirates. Dubai is just like the trailblazer when it comes to real estate.

When it comes to tourism, then Abu Dhabi is the one that is. That's the seat of power. They have like this stable growth and oil money. And then there is Ralph Karma, that. That's like a fastly.

But why I like this, why I like Dubai, is there's no bureaucracy. Right. And it's authoritarian, but with the right intent, committed to growth.

Because it was a small fishing village and they said, we want to build an empire. It's a desert. Like, I left America for a desert. Like, I left the best country in the world. And I'm here and I'm happy being here. Right?

So it was just vision. They had this vision. We want to create this world, and they've achieved that.

There's nothing these guys have set out to achieve that they haven't achieved. They said they wanted to double the number of people here. And as last month, just. Dubai has 4 million people living here from 200 countries.

And these are not people who are here begging for food. These are not people who are looking for welfare. These are not. No. These are people who are acting, actively contributing to the economy.

So I like it here because when decisions are have to be made, they're made fast. They see things not working, they switch things really fast.

There's no congress meeting, and then everyone's going back and forth and, oh, we're going to close the government. No, that doesn't Happen. We're like, here they say this is not working. What would make it work? It's this and then it's done, period.

It doesn't take days, it doesn't take months for things to happen. Things happen fast. That's why I like it here. And the real estate market is booming. It's growing really fast.

Just for numbers, just to give people an idea. Maybe like a studio. So it's kind of like Miami, New York prices. So maybe like a studio.

The average studio would go for like $220,000 and then maybe like a one bedroom, depending on how luxurious they choose to furnish. Because some of the developers, they would say, oh, it's all luxury. It's, you know, it's a.

Or they could say, oh, it's Mercedes service that's building this whole build. I'm like, Mercedes, yeah, it's, that's what happens here.

So they could have all the furnishing or they could just choose a designer and then that design, like Versace would design the whole building. And it's a Versace building. So they have stuff like that. So it varies. But just like maybe like the entry point would be like $220,000.

And what's interesting, just to go back to the cranes, you saw most of the buildings you buy, it's in, quote, a dream because it does not exist.

There are buildings that exist, but because so much construction is going on and with real estate, in my opinion, you get the best deal when you buy at a low amount. Once you buy low, then that means you're going to win when you, when you have capital gains. So you buy when it's still in construction.

So that's when you put your. And then they have like different payment plans.

They could say, okay, you can pay 30% while it's still in construction and then when you're done, you pay the other parts. The only difference, the drawback here is that it requires a lot of upfront cash to get into the markets. You need cash to get into the market.

And their mortgage system is not as developed as ours where there are different ways you can navigate to get loans. In the US that system is not that developed here because they have so many people bringing in cash from all over the world to this place. So yeah.

Have you run into challenges as you're looking to invest there?

Any specific challenges that you're going to face as a woman that might make it more difficult for you or somebody showing up with capital from anywhere?

So as female? Not really. It's this place. So Dubai is just full of surprises. You would think as female, I would have all these challenges.

No, because I teach women how to negotiate. The women here, like I go for events and I asked them, I said, how come you guys are disavowed with how you negotiate? The women here are strong.

And even though they are strong, I'm a feminist, right. I believe men and women, I don't think men and women are equal, but I think if I do a job, I do it as well as a man. I should be paid the same. Right?

That's my idea of being a feminist. So I asked them, I said, how come you guys are this?

They say, well, we've been fighting for our rights from when we were little, so now we're well developed in fighting for our rights as women. But there's no, it's a, it's very different how they fight for it. It's not like in your face, but it's being done.

So I've not faced anything as female, any challenge as female. If anything, I've had more, I've had more supports just being female. And from one, because I have a podcast.

So one of my podcast guests, actually, he said some of the females in his field, they get paid more than men.

About time, right?

Finally, it should be equal. They should get paid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, unpack this a little bit for me.

Because, you know, when we talk about buying a piece of real estate, a single family home in, in the United States, you know, you're talking buying Soviet property for $200,000. You put anywhere from 5 to 30% down maybe, you know, and it sounds like you're.

These are, you're buying brand new buildings so you're not forcing the appreciation in any manner. And then you're renting them out. Correct.

So it depends on your strategy. So if your goal is to buy and hold, then you buy and hold.

And you could rent a short term rental because that's also a very big market here because it's a huge, it's a huge. There's tourism going on. So short term market is really big here. Or you could use it as long term rental or you can.

What we call flip in the US is not what they call flip here. So you buy the idea and then when it's ready at, to hand over, then you sell. That's what they call flip here. So you could sell when you've.

When it's maybe like three, four years after when it's ready for handover. So those are the three main options.

So are you, if you buy something there, like say you buy something for like 400 grand, are you hitting people able to hit the 1% rule, like is it going to rent for $4,000 a month or is it going to rent for like 6 to 8, $10,000 a month?

So here on average you get like 8% return on investment when you rent long term.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

We had new developments popping up everywhere. And people from California were coming into Las Vegas and buying 4, 5, 6 homes that were under construction and flipping them once they were done.

Now it's a great strategy when everyone is looking to buy and they're coming in the moment that turned suddenly you had entire neighborhoods in Las Vegas that were ghost towns. There would be a community of 2,000 houses, master plan, brand new, beautiful homes.

And there's one family living in that 2,000 and the rest are all owned by investors who are losing their shirt. So I love it. I love that. Dubai sounds exciting, sounds great. It also like the risk hairs in the back of my neck are also standing up.

How do you manage the risk?

So for me, what I look at is I look at their. I look at history, then I look at the present, then I. That helps me to project the future.

And they've hit the mark so far and whatever strategies the government has to put in place because most of the money they make is from investors. It's from outside people coming in here to invest here and they want to keep that going.

So they will do whatever needs to be done to make people keep moving to Dubai. Like before, if you move to Dubai, you would have to. It was just so hard to get a visa.

But now they made it so easy that if you come in, you can stay easily. They started the golden visa.

There's a golden visa thing going on where if you invest Dh2 million, which will be about $550,000, then you can apply for that 10 year visa, then it's easier for you to be here. And then before, if you were going to start a business, then you had to partner with a local and they would have a big percentage of that business.

But they saw that that wasn't helping investors so they stopped that. My confidence in Dubai is the leadership, not necessarily just the pure business plan.

The pure, the business plan would make me really nervous, but the leadership is making me more confident in the business plan. All right.

I also will add that, you know, an example that pops to mind is the World cup every four years. If you look at the salary of some of what some of these guys are making for a sport that is very under the radar for here in the US it's eye popping.

And it's because it's global money. It is a global economy that is it's the most popular sport in the world. Global perspective.

And you start to realize, oh, maybe our tiny little corner of the world over here in the US isn't as important as we think we are, as most Americans seem to think that we are. Right. Pompous windbags. But the, the point is like this is a global perspective, global economy.

And even in the Emirates where they are like she mentioned, Abu Dhabi is a booming metropolis and a lot of things are happening there. Nothing has been growing as fast as, as Dubai. And I understand your trepidation because it's limitless desert.

There is no socioeconomic barrier or geographic limitation to how far you can grow and keep building city. But the money's there, the oil money is there.

Honestly, the ability to steer the ship quickly because it's a little more on a little. It's on the authoritarian side.

Right there you have someone steering the ship and they don't have to go through Congress or Senate or anything else to make decisions. There's good and bad to that. Right. And I, and I think it makes a Good point.

So, Dr. Gloria, this conversation went a different direction than I thought it was going to when we started.

Is that good or bad?

I think it's great. Yeah. I'm glad to connect with you. You have a global perspective. I love that. So it's great.

For the sake of your time and our listeners, we'll start wrapping it up here. I want to ask you a question that we ask all of our listeners and we used to ask like, what's your favorite book?

But that's not what I want to go with here. You speak with a lot of people. You do a lot of coaching.

You speak with women about negotiations, you speak with patients, and you have a bedside manner there. That is extremely important from the sake of empathy.

But you're also on the business side of things, so you got good intelligence and financial acumen there. So I have no idea what direction this answer is going to go in.

But the question is this instead of a favorite, what we're asking is, is there a book or a resource that you find yourself referencing and recommending to friends, family, or people that you're coaching more than anyone else?

That's tough to answer. And I'll tell you why. Because I'm Christian and the Bible is the foundation for my life. That's the book I read. I read the Bible every day.

I meditate on the word of God. So that that's my number one book in the world. Then the next book I would recommend because not everyone is a Christian.

I understand that it's how to make friends and influence People. That's a really good book everyone should read. So those are my two number ones.

Listen, if you're a Christian, that should be top of your list. And I don't think anybody else has said that in 145 episodes. So good for you.

And saying that, you know, in the country where you are like that, it takes guts, right? You have to have courage to. To say that in a country that's a. It's a Muslim country. So that's amazing. Good for you.

And it's, you know, you got one book there that in some situations, especially in that country, may ostracize people. And the other book that you love is one of how to influence and endear people and bring them to you. So I think that's a great balance.

Once again, a surprising answer that I didn't see coming. Well, Dr. Gloria, I think we'll wrap it up there. I want to tell you I appreciate you coming on. Thank you for your perspective.

Thank you for what you're doing for the people over there. I'm sure that they're glad to have you. And thank you for your willingness to come on and share with us today.

It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you guys.

Thank you so much for listening and watching the Truly Passive Income podcast.

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